Recently, the so-called "Community of Christ" has joined the likes of the Church of Scientology and Barbara Streisand in abusing intellectual property laws to try to suppress online speech that is critical or expository of them through a complaint by a Mr. Robert Lewis which has resulted in the closure of the "RLDS Original Believers" Facebook discussion group. Scientology has a long history of engaging in dishonest tactics to try to suppress online speech that is critical of it's views or practices and the so-called "Community of Christ" seems to be following in it's footsteps.
This Facebook group was just for discussion and did not in any way claim to represent the CoC or even "the RLDS church." It included many discussions that were critical of the CoC including many about the CoC vs Devon Park lawsuit, without being in any way affiliated with Devon Park, this blog or any specific religious organization. Community of Christ members were welcome to participate in the discussion. This goes beyond being an intellectual property issue and is now a freedom of expression issue.
I'm surprised Devon Park still has a building. It may be that the so-called "Community of Christ" has not come after us demanding the judgement to avoid bad press but it might also have something to do with the fact that there is a lean on our property to help pay for our legal defense expenses. Perhaps they'll come after the judgement if/when the lean is gone or perhaps they're only interested in the effect of creating fear, uncertainty and doubt in the Restoration Branches movement without being interested in seizing our building the way they did with many buildings in the 1980s. For a while it has seemed that they've learned a little tact at least in terms of public relations but actions like this call even that hypothesis into question.
A new group with the same words switched around, titled "Believers in Original RLDS Doctrines" has been created to replace the old group, at least until a mediation process with Facebook staff can be pursued. I would suggest emaling this Lewis fellow to point out that abusing the Facebook complaints process like this is not a smart move and that it would be better all around for the so-called "Community of Christ" to avoid using Scientology tactics, if for no other reason than to avoid the wrath of Anonymous; the dreaded Final Boss of the Internets.
(later edit) Mr. Lewis is reportedly acting under the direction of Karen Minton
Thursday, February 16, 2012
Wednesday, July 20, 2011
Historical Amnesia
An important academic paper has been published which is highly relevant to the subject of this blog despite the lawsuit being over
HISTORICAL AMNESIA: CORPORATE IDENTITY AND COLLECTIVE MEMORY IN THE REORGANIZED CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, 1915-2001
A DISSERTATION IN History and Social Science Consortium
by KENNETH ROBERT MULLIKEN
http://gradworks.umi.com/3454158.pdf
If you can't read it, let me know and I'll find some other way to post it.
HISTORICAL AMNESIA: CORPORATE IDENTITY AND COLLECTIVE MEMORY IN THE REORGANIZED CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, 1915-2001
A DISSERTATION IN History and Social Science Consortium
by KENNETH ROBERT MULLIKEN
http://gradworks.umi.com/3454158.pdf
If you can't read it, let me know and I'll find some other way to post it.
Tuesday, April 5, 2011
RLDS religion now outlawed
A judgement has come on what is probably the final relevant decision. Publicly proclaiming the original RLDS doctrines under their proper name is now outlawed in the United States. You either bow down to Der Fuhrer or you have your building and all of your church's property confiscated by the Gestapo. (This has not happened yet but I expect it will soon)
I do not concede that just because the courts have ruled against us that we have been wrong. I have long been distrustful of the American judicial system (The Judiciary is the least democratic branch of government after all) before this lawsuit was ever conceived. A system that produces decisions like Dred Scott, Roe v. Wade and Eldred v. Ashcroft cannot be relied upon to rule on the side of justice or even basic sanity. I still believe that both the right in the ethical sense and the right in the sense of statutory law have both been on our side. There has been a good deal of case law against us but many of those other decisions have also been as wrong as this decision has been.
We decided going into this thing that we would not surrender because our principles are more valuable than our money or property. If it costs us our little building in order to write irrevocably into the pages of church history for future generations to read that Devon Park did everything humanly possible to rescue the name of the church, that is a fair enough trade. No one will ever be able to accuse us of abandoning the name of the church.
We're not sure how much power this decision will give the CoC over us in the coming days but Devon Park branch will continue to exist and stand on principle regardless of what happens to our legal corporation, our building or our relatively meager bank accounts. We started by meeting in the homes of individual members and if we have to go back to that again, so be it. In the words of the book of Job, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord." Our principles are more valuable than our money or property for they endure when all the rest of this crumbles to dust.
The record will show that the so-called "Community of Christ" hierarchy will stop at nothing, is dishonest and appears utterly without principle or conscience. I think it's important to let people know the truth behind how they're spinning this.
According to a Blue Springs Examiner story:
I would like to know precisely who these collaborators are and what exactly "working peacefully" means. Given that the Community of Christ somehow reconciled their pursuing this lawsuit against us with their "mission of peace," they seem to have embraced the Orwellian notion that "War is Peace." As such I am naturally very suspicious as to Booth's definition of "working peacefully" and expect that it probably means the other branches have merely capitulated to the Community of Christ's threats, simply in hopes of avoiding a similar fate as Devon Park, not actually "working peacefully" together. You aren't working peacefully with someone while you're threatening them!
Booth's next assertion tries to make us out to somehow be criminals.
Deciding to challenge the validity of a trademark is not a decision to refuse to abide by the law! If it were, then no trademark could ever be challenged. Should we have "abided" by Governor Boggs's extermination order as well?
Also, the fact is that we have not "intentionally left the church." Where are our letters of resignation? When have we insisted that our names be stricken from the rolls? In fact, some members of Devon Park are still on the Community of Christ rolls as "members at large." A decade ago, some Restoration Branches requested representation in the CoC world conference and were denied. To say that the members of the Restoration Branches movement "left the church" in the 1980s is putting it very mildly - the fact is, they were locked out, in many cases both figuratively and literally. And these lockouts may be on their way again for anyone who will not abide their doctrinal apostasy and ecclesiastical tyranny.
In order to be able to practice our religion and teach our religious beliefs in future, we are going to have to come up with some sort of pseudonym to stand for the latter day saint Christian church that was reorganized by Joseph Smith III. It may be too soon for that issue to be decided at the upcoming Joint Conference of Restoration Branches as there will probably not be sufficient time between now and when the conference happens later this month for the saints to seek the Lord's will on the question of their future public identity, given that the one the Lord gave them in the 1860s has now been outlawed. We are not a generic church or "religion" - we are not "non-denominational" in the Protestant sense; we believe in a specific church organization with specific priesthood offices and ordinances. The question is what to call it henceforth, given that it has suffered identity theft.
I am not sure what to call the 19th and early 20th century RLDS theology except "RLDS theology" and so I suppose I am unavoidably going to be violating the trademark (as an individual) in some ways going forward for the nature of our language leaves us no other choice. So if there is any flouting of the law, now is when it could, in a sense, begin because up to now, we have complied with the law. We will have some difficult decisions to make in the days to come. Let us always pray for us to continue to be on God's side, for God is always on the side of right, no matter what any court says or any law.
I do not concede that just because the courts have ruled against us that we have been wrong. I have long been distrustful of the American judicial system (The Judiciary is the least democratic branch of government after all) before this lawsuit was ever conceived. A system that produces decisions like Dred Scott, Roe v. Wade and Eldred v. Ashcroft cannot be relied upon to rule on the side of justice or even basic sanity. I still believe that both the right in the ethical sense and the right in the sense of statutory law have both been on our side. There has been a good deal of case law against us but many of those other decisions have also been as wrong as this decision has been.
We decided going into this thing that we would not surrender because our principles are more valuable than our money or property. If it costs us our little building in order to write irrevocably into the pages of church history for future generations to read that Devon Park did everything humanly possible to rescue the name of the church, that is a fair enough trade. No one will ever be able to accuse us of abandoning the name of the church.
We're not sure how much power this decision will give the CoC over us in the coming days but Devon Park branch will continue to exist and stand on principle regardless of what happens to our legal corporation, our building or our relatively meager bank accounts. We started by meeting in the homes of individual members and if we have to go back to that again, so be it. In the words of the book of Job, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord." Our principles are more valuable than our money or property for they endure when all the rest of this crumbles to dust.
The record will show that the so-called "Community of Christ" hierarchy will stop at nothing, is dishonest and appears utterly without principle or conscience. I think it's important to let people know the truth behind how they're spinning this.
According to a Blue Springs Examiner story:
Linda Booth, Community of Christ director of communications, said other restoration branches in the Kansas City area “have worked peacefully” with Community of Christ officials to ensure their names and images were not infringing on trademarked material.
I would like to know precisely who these collaborators are and what exactly "working peacefully" means. Given that the Community of Christ somehow reconciled their pursuing this lawsuit against us with their "mission of peace," they seem to have embraced the Orwellian notion that "War is Peace." As such I am naturally very suspicious as to Booth's definition of "working peacefully" and expect that it probably means the other branches have merely capitulated to the Community of Christ's threats, simply in hopes of avoiding a similar fate as Devon Park, not actually "working peacefully" together. You aren't working peacefully with someone while you're threatening them!
Booth's next assertion tries to make us out to somehow be criminals.
“Any suffering they have is self-inflicted,” Booth said of Devon Park followers in relation to the trademark case. “They made a decision that they were not going to abide by the law. When they say they have suffered, indeed, their suffering is self-inflicted because they have chosen to violate the law and because they intentionally left the church.”
Deciding to challenge the validity of a trademark is not a decision to refuse to abide by the law! If it were, then no trademark could ever be challenged. Should we have "abided" by Governor Boggs's extermination order as well?
Also, the fact is that we have not "intentionally left the church." Where are our letters of resignation? When have we insisted that our names be stricken from the rolls? In fact, some members of Devon Park are still on the Community of Christ rolls as "members at large." A decade ago, some Restoration Branches requested representation in the CoC world conference and were denied. To say that the members of the Restoration Branches movement "left the church" in the 1980s is putting it very mildly - the fact is, they were locked out, in many cases both figuratively and literally. And these lockouts may be on their way again for anyone who will not abide their doctrinal apostasy and ecclesiastical tyranny.
In order to be able to practice our religion and teach our religious beliefs in future, we are going to have to come up with some sort of pseudonym to stand for the latter day saint Christian church that was reorganized by Joseph Smith III. It may be too soon for that issue to be decided at the upcoming Joint Conference of Restoration Branches as there will probably not be sufficient time between now and when the conference happens later this month for the saints to seek the Lord's will on the question of their future public identity, given that the one the Lord gave them in the 1860s has now been outlawed. We are not a generic church or "religion" - we are not "non-denominational" in the Protestant sense; we believe in a specific church organization with specific priesthood offices and ordinances. The question is what to call it henceforth, given that it has suffered identity theft.
I am not sure what to call the 19th and early 20th century RLDS theology except "RLDS theology" and so I suppose I am unavoidably going to be violating the trademark (as an individual) in some ways going forward for the nature of our language leaves us no other choice. So if there is any flouting of the law, now is when it could, in a sense, begin because up to now, we have complied with the law. We will have some difficult decisions to make in the days to come. Let us always pray for us to continue to be on God's side, for God is always on the side of right, no matter what any court says or any law.
Monday, October 25, 2010
Court of Appeals set date?
The Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit might be able to hear 20 minutes of oral argument from each side on November 17. Not much to report other than that.
Thursday, June 3, 2010
Appellee's Brief
Here is the brief filed by Devon Park's attorneys in the appeal. We're still fighting!
Monday, May 10, 2010
A Divorce of Religion by Neil Simmons
This is a true story.
They had a long and reasonable marriage with the usual conflicts over money and who was responsible for various household chores. But late in life, an issue arose that led to their divorce.
She became convinced that she had a right to the authority and position equal to that of her husband. He believed she had a vital role of importance, but a different one than he. He had the scripture on his side, she had political correctness on her side. Her insistence to obtain and exercise an authority exactly equal to the husband in the family became so stressful that her husband decided to move out of their home, leaving her in charge of what had been their mutual possessions.
Nevertheless, he continued to regard himself as a married man and provided for himself only the most modest personal items while he looked forward to a possible reconciliation. Sadly, his various efforts to discuss the possible modalities of reconciliation were always rebuffed.
Meanwhile, after courting a number of others who upheld her rights, she chose to marry again, taking a new name and a radically altered view of her role in the household. She changed the way she conducted herself in public and the past interests and beliefs she once shared with her first husband she now abandoned.
After her remarriage and the taking of her new name, he was astonished to be served by a lawsuit which forbade him to use his own name. She argued that she had long used his name and even though she no longer intended to use the name of her ex-husband, she had the right to his name because, like the possessions he had left behind, she had obtained the legal right to deprive him of his own name.
The husband in this sad story is the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The wife is now known as the Community of Christ.
The male and female heads of the household had a long and productive relationship, until the female side of the church insisted upon taking on the role previously held by male priesthood. This insistence provoked a divorce within the church, with the female side continuing in possession of all the effects of the household, while the male side was dispossessed and became known as the independent Restoration Branches.
These independent Restoration Branches continued to insist that they were a continuation of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This was their heritage and it had been theirs for more than a hundred years. Even though they were not in physical possession of the family properties, they continued to ask for a formal meeting for reconciliation which was never granted.
Meanwhile the female side of the RLDS church courted other organizations, making her commitment to the World Council of Churches and moving that process forward by changing her name to the Community of Christ.
Imagine the shock of the independent Restoration Branches when the Community of Christ went to court to obtain a legal way to ban the Restorationists from using their own name. The COC then sued two of these branches, declaring that they did not have a lawful right to use the name (RLDS) by which these branch members had been identified for more than a hundred years.
Let us appeal to justice here. This is a simple case of divorce. The Community of Christ is the former wife. The Restoration Branches, the former husband. The wife has retained all property. The husband was willing to move out of the family properties without any legal argument.
After the husband (Restoration Branches) made a plea to the Community of Christ to release the RLDS name to them, the leaders of the Community of Christ asked their lawyers to find a way to prevent the Restoration Branches from using or exercising their right to use their RLDS name.
In 2005-6 the Community of Christ quietly secured a “trademark” designation of the name of the RLDS church, and then attacked these Restoration Branches for using the name through lawsuits. It is clear that the Community of Christ has legally registered the RLDS name in order to prevent Restoration Branches from using it.
These are the facts of the case. What is justice? Members of the local community and members of the Community of Christ ought to be able to see that a grave injustice is being done to the Devon Park branch. It has cost them nearly a half million dollars to defend their right to use the name of the church in which they were baptized and have been members of for their entire lives.
Notice that at the same time as the Community of Christ has declared that the Devon Park members cannot use their RLDS name, they themselves have changed all their recorded membership to the “Community of Christ.” So members of Devon Park branch who were baptized and confirmed members of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can request their membership card; but when it is sent to the member, it will declare that they are a member of the Community of Christ. If that is not hypocrisy, it is very close to it.
Members of the local community should expect better from the leadership of the Community of Christ who claim to stand for peace and justice in the world but practice legal warfare on innocent ones they claim are part of their own membership. Members of the Community of Christ ought to be outraged by the leadership attempt to keep the ”husband” in this analogy from using his own name and that they have used the money of it’s contributors to do so.
This matter will be argued before a court of appeals this year because the tiny Devon Park branch is determined not to surrender the heritage it has held for decades and not to be bullied by the COC. But we ordinary citizens and church members ought to be able to render a sensible judgment on this matter and pressure those leaders of the COC who pursue the lawsuit to drop it.
They had a long and reasonable marriage with the usual conflicts over money and who was responsible for various household chores. But late in life, an issue arose that led to their divorce.
She became convinced that she had a right to the authority and position equal to that of her husband. He believed she had a vital role of importance, but a different one than he. He had the scripture on his side, she had political correctness on her side. Her insistence to obtain and exercise an authority exactly equal to the husband in the family became so stressful that her husband decided to move out of their home, leaving her in charge of what had been their mutual possessions.
Nevertheless, he continued to regard himself as a married man and provided for himself only the most modest personal items while he looked forward to a possible reconciliation. Sadly, his various efforts to discuss the possible modalities of reconciliation were always rebuffed.
Meanwhile, after courting a number of others who upheld her rights, she chose to marry again, taking a new name and a radically altered view of her role in the household. She changed the way she conducted herself in public and the past interests and beliefs she once shared with her first husband she now abandoned.
After her remarriage and the taking of her new name, he was astonished to be served by a lawsuit which forbade him to use his own name. She argued that she had long used his name and even though she no longer intended to use the name of her ex-husband, she had the right to his name because, like the possessions he had left behind, she had obtained the legal right to deprive him of his own name.
The husband in this sad story is the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The wife is now known as the Community of Christ.
The male and female heads of the household had a long and productive relationship, until the female side of the church insisted upon taking on the role previously held by male priesthood. This insistence provoked a divorce within the church, with the female side continuing in possession of all the effects of the household, while the male side was dispossessed and became known as the independent Restoration Branches.
These independent Restoration Branches continued to insist that they were a continuation of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This was their heritage and it had been theirs for more than a hundred years. Even though they were not in physical possession of the family properties, they continued to ask for a formal meeting for reconciliation which was never granted.
Meanwhile the female side of the RLDS church courted other organizations, making her commitment to the World Council of Churches and moving that process forward by changing her name to the Community of Christ.
Imagine the shock of the independent Restoration Branches when the Community of Christ went to court to obtain a legal way to ban the Restorationists from using their own name. The COC then sued two of these branches, declaring that they did not have a lawful right to use the name (RLDS) by which these branch members had been identified for more than a hundred years.
Let us appeal to justice here. This is a simple case of divorce. The Community of Christ is the former wife. The Restoration Branches, the former husband. The wife has retained all property. The husband was willing to move out of the family properties without any legal argument.
After the husband (Restoration Branches) made a plea to the Community of Christ to release the RLDS name to them, the leaders of the Community of Christ asked their lawyers to find a way to prevent the Restoration Branches from using or exercising their right to use their RLDS name.
In 2005-6 the Community of Christ quietly secured a “trademark” designation of the name of the RLDS church, and then attacked these Restoration Branches for using the name through lawsuits. It is clear that the Community of Christ has legally registered the RLDS name in order to prevent Restoration Branches from using it.
These are the facts of the case. What is justice? Members of the local community and members of the Community of Christ ought to be able to see that a grave injustice is being done to the Devon Park branch. It has cost them nearly a half million dollars to defend their right to use the name of the church in which they were baptized and have been members of for their entire lives.
Notice that at the same time as the Community of Christ has declared that the Devon Park members cannot use their RLDS name, they themselves have changed all their recorded membership to the “Community of Christ.” So members of Devon Park branch who were baptized and confirmed members of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can request their membership card; but when it is sent to the member, it will declare that they are a member of the Community of Christ. If that is not hypocrisy, it is very close to it.
Members of the local community should expect better from the leadership of the Community of Christ who claim to stand for peace and justice in the world but practice legal warfare on innocent ones they claim are part of their own membership. Members of the Community of Christ ought to be outraged by the leadership attempt to keep the ”husband” in this analogy from using his own name and that they have used the money of it’s contributors to do so.
This matter will be argued before a court of appeals this year because the tiny Devon Park branch is determined not to surrender the heritage it has held for decades and not to be bullied by the COC. But we ordinary citizens and church members ought to be able to render a sensible judgment on this matter and pressure those leaders of the COC who pursue the lawsuit to drop it.
Tuesday, May 4, 2010
Daniel is again being thrown into the lion’s den
From my mom's Independence Examiner guest column:
Submitted to The Examiner
Posted May 04, 2010 @ 12:08 AM
Independence, MO
By Holly McLean
Independence
What are the similarities of Daniel and the Lion’s Den and the [Community of Christ] vs. Devon Park?
Daniel was a faithful servant of God and the king. Because of his honesty and integrity, both God and the king were very pleased with him. The princes of the king knew this and were very jealous. They wanted to get rid of Daniel. They watched him closely trying to find some fault.
The only thing they discovered was that Daniel made a habit of praying every morning, afternoon and evening in an open way. Since the princes could think of nothing else, they devised a plan to use this against him. There was no law against praying to God, so they went to the king, saying they wanted to honor him by writing a law that no one could pray to anyone but the king for 30 days or they would be thrown into the lion’s den. The whole purpose was to make a law that they knew Daniel would break. The king was fooled and signed the law believing he was being honored.
As soon as the law was signed, the princes went to see if Daniel would pray, in order to turn him in for violating the order of the king. Of course, Daniel did not change his beliefs or habits, so the princes ran to the king and told him that he must keep his word and throw Daniel into the lion’s den.
How is this similar? The Community of Christ leadership knew the restoration branches were proclaiming the fullness of the gospel and continuing to practice the original RLDS doctrines under the name they have held for decades, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They did not want the restoration people to continue to do this, even though they no longer practice or teach these doctrines and are using a new name for themselves, Community of Christ. For the sole purpose of squelching the RLDS restorationists, these COC leaders devised a way to stop them by using the law.
In 2005, the COC quietly filed for trademark rights to the RLDS name, knowing that the restoration people were already using it to continue to describe themselves and their religious beliefs. Once they obtained them in December 2006, the suing of churches began. In spring of 2007, the COC filed suit against South Branch in Raytown. Next, they came after Devon Park in Independence. Once the suits began, the COC leaders started blaming the restoration branches that were being sued for violating the law.
In a recent interview with The Examiner newspaper, the spokesperson for the COC said, “Any suffering they have is self-inflicted. They made a decision that they were not going to abide by the law.”
Yet, it is obvious this law is only in place because the COC trademarked the name and therefore, the heritage of the name, in order to create a law for the purpose of stopping the RLDS restoration movement from continuing to proclaim the gospel and its true doctrines by the name they always have.
As did the princes in Daniel’s day, The Community of Christ leadership has purposefully created a situation that challenges the heritage of the RLDS restoration believers by creating a trademark infringement that they now point to as proof of law violation. Will the court see through this or will they throw the RLDS originalists into the lion’s den?
Submitted to The Examiner
Posted May 04, 2010 @ 12:08 AM
Independence, MO
By Holly McLean
Independence
What are the similarities of Daniel and the Lion’s Den and the [Community of Christ] vs. Devon Park?
Daniel was a faithful servant of God and the king. Because of his honesty and integrity, both God and the king were very pleased with him. The princes of the king knew this and were very jealous. They wanted to get rid of Daniel. They watched him closely trying to find some fault.
The only thing they discovered was that Daniel made a habit of praying every morning, afternoon and evening in an open way. Since the princes could think of nothing else, they devised a plan to use this against him. There was no law against praying to God, so they went to the king, saying they wanted to honor him by writing a law that no one could pray to anyone but the king for 30 days or they would be thrown into the lion’s den. The whole purpose was to make a law that they knew Daniel would break. The king was fooled and signed the law believing he was being honored.
As soon as the law was signed, the princes went to see if Daniel would pray, in order to turn him in for violating the order of the king. Of course, Daniel did not change his beliefs or habits, so the princes ran to the king and told him that he must keep his word and throw Daniel into the lion’s den.
How is this similar? The Community of Christ leadership knew the restoration branches were proclaiming the fullness of the gospel and continuing to practice the original RLDS doctrines under the name they have held for decades, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They did not want the restoration people to continue to do this, even though they no longer practice or teach these doctrines and are using a new name for themselves, Community of Christ. For the sole purpose of squelching the RLDS restorationists, these COC leaders devised a way to stop them by using the law.
In 2005, the COC quietly filed for trademark rights to the RLDS name, knowing that the restoration people were already using it to continue to describe themselves and their religious beliefs. Once they obtained them in December 2006, the suing of churches began. In spring of 2007, the COC filed suit against South Branch in Raytown. Next, they came after Devon Park in Independence. Once the suits began, the COC leaders started blaming the restoration branches that were being sued for violating the law.
In a recent interview with The Examiner newspaper, the spokesperson for the COC said, “Any suffering they have is self-inflicted. They made a decision that they were not going to abide by the law.”
Yet, it is obvious this law is only in place because the COC trademarked the name and therefore, the heritage of the name, in order to create a law for the purpose of stopping the RLDS restoration movement from continuing to proclaim the gospel and its true doctrines by the name they always have.
As did the princes in Daniel’s day, The Community of Christ leadership has purposefully created a situation that challenges the heritage of the RLDS restoration believers by creating a trademark infringement that they now point to as proof of law violation. Will the court see through this or will they throw the RLDS originalists into the lion’s den?
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